Teaching U*U Historian Jaume de Marcos Andreu A Lesson In U*U History. . .
Over on his Pfarrer Streccius blog Chicago area Conservative U*U Bill Barr questions Spanish U*U historian Jaume de Marcos Andreu's assertion that, "Unless American UUism makes a decision about whether they are a single body, or a conglomeration of congregations, associations, or religions, it will be hard to be relevant and to speak with a single, consistent voice." I responded in a comment that Jaume de Marcos needed to bone-up on his U*U history since it is pretty glaringly obvious that the UUA aka the Unitarian*Universalist Association of Congregations long ago made a decision that it was an "association of congregations". . . It seems that Jaume de Marcos, who besides being a U*U historian of sorts was also "elected" as the Secretary of the International Council of Unitarian*Universalists last year, as I had so prophetically predicted ;-), decided that I needed a lesson in U*U history myself and posted the following response to my comment -
Robin, thank you for your encouragement. I do try to learn a bit more every day about U+U history, that is why I have already published a book on that subject, and have been given lectures during the past three years. Have you?
By the way, if someone needs to learn about what congregational polity is, it's you. Remember your love affair with the Montreal church and Rev. Drennan? You have my full support in your learning process, Robin, as always.
I have responded to Jaume de Marcos on Bill Baar's Pfarrer Streccius blog but feel that it is worthwhile cross-posting my response here. Bill Barr has been pretty good about not "memory holing" most of my critical comments posted to his U*U blogs but he has "memory-holed" a few of my comments in recent months. This cross-posting will ensure that if my response to Jaume de Marcos' comment is "memory-holed" by Bill Baar that it none-the-less be available here. I have corrected some typos in the original comment and may yet add some extra embedded links to it -
Jaume de Marcos Andreu said...
:Robin, thank you for your encouragement.
You're welcome Jaume. Anytime. . .
:I do try to learn a bit more every day about U+U history,
You seem to try to suppress unflattering U*U history from time to time Jaume. Have you learned anything interesting about the seemingly credible allegations of various German anti-racist and anti-fascist groups that the German Unitarian religious community was "steeplejacked" by Nazi ideologues, including former SS officers who were convicted war criminals? Maybe you should research and write a book about that fascinating aspect of U*U history some time Jaume. . . You can start your free and responsible search for the truth and meaning (or possible lack thereof) of those disturbing allegations about the Deutsche Unitarier Religionsgemeinschaft and Bund Deutscher Unitarier which split off from the DUR in the 1980's. I look forward to seeing it published some time.
:that is why I have already published a book on that subject,
I am quite aware that you published a book about one rather ancient "famous Unitarian" who got into a spot of trouble with Calvin for pointing out apparent flaws in Christian theology Jaume, but you seem to be rather ignorant of more recent U*U history, particularly in terms of the UUA's policy of "congregational polity". This is precisely why I suggested that you need to do some more research into U*U history. . . In fact, considering that you are something of a U*U historian, your apparent ignorance of such fundamental policies of U*Uism is somewhat surprising.
:and have been given lectures during the past three years. Have you?
I quite regularly give lectures about U*U history on The Emerson Avenger blog and as comments on other blogs etc. I can't imagine that you would want me delivering such lectures more publicly Jaume but perhaps one day I will. In fact I intend to do some more research into those allegations about alleged "Nazi Unit-Aryans" in the Deutsche Unitarier Religionsgemeinschaft aka DUR and Bund Deutscher Unitarier aka BDU and post the results of that free and responsible search for truth and meaning in the coming months. Maybe I will get around to throwing that book at U*Us before you do Jaume. . .
:By the way, if someone needs to learn about what congregational polity is, it's you. Remember your love affair with the Montreal church and Rev. Drennan?
Actually I have learned a fair bit about the seamy underbelly of "congregational polity" the hard way Jaume. Indeed my ongoing "love affair" with the Unitarian Church of Montreal and Rev. Ray Drennan actually shows that "congregational polity" allows rogue U*U ministers and rogue U*U congregations to "get away with murder", to say nothing of character assassination. But you should know that my "love affair" extends to the UUA, its Department of Ministry, the Ministerial Fellowship Committee and UUMA, and more recently, the UUA's Department of Congregational Services. All of these bodies hold responsibility for dealing appropriately with clergy misconduct and have abjectly failed and obstinately refused to responsibly redress by serious grievances about Rev. Ray Drennan's intolerant and abusive clergy misconduct. In fact the UUA has a terrible track record when it comes to providing genuine restorative justice to victims of clergy misconduct, including clergy sexual misconduct Jaume. Perhaps you should write a book about that. . .
:You have my full support in your learning process, Robin, as always.
Of course Jaume. No doubt, you consider your "memory holing" of my critical comments on your The Hanif blog to be part of that "learning process". Of course that "learning process" is a two-way street Jaume and I have done my fair share of teaching U*Us some lessons that they need to learn. It is most regrettable that U*Us are such slow learners though. . . I guess that U*Us will have to live and learn some more before our little "love affair" ends in divorce.
Robin, thank you for your encouragement. I do try to learn a bit more every day about U+U history, that is why I have already published a book on that subject, and have been given lectures during the past three years. Have you?
By the way, if someone needs to learn about what congregational polity is, it's you. Remember your love affair with the Montreal church and Rev. Drennan? You have my full support in your learning process, Robin, as always.
I have responded to Jaume de Marcos on Bill Baar's Pfarrer Streccius blog but feel that it is worthwhile cross-posting my response here. Bill Barr has been pretty good about not "memory holing" most of my critical comments posted to his U*U blogs but he has "memory-holed" a few of my comments in recent months. This cross-posting will ensure that if my response to Jaume de Marcos' comment is "memory-holed" by Bill Baar that it none-the-less be available here. I have corrected some typos in the original comment and may yet add some extra embedded links to it -
Jaume de Marcos Andreu said...
:Robin, thank you for your encouragement.
You're welcome Jaume. Anytime. . .
:I do try to learn a bit more every day about U+U history,
You seem to try to suppress unflattering U*U history from time to time Jaume. Have you learned anything interesting about the seemingly credible allegations of various German anti-racist and anti-fascist groups that the German Unitarian religious community was "steeplejacked" by Nazi ideologues, including former SS officers who were convicted war criminals? Maybe you should research and write a book about that fascinating aspect of U*U history some time Jaume. . . You can start your free and responsible search for the truth and meaning (or possible lack thereof) of those disturbing allegations about the Deutsche Unitarier Religionsgemeinschaft and Bund Deutscher Unitarier which split off from the DUR in the 1980's. I look forward to seeing it published some time.
:that is why I have already published a book on that subject,
I am quite aware that you published a book about one rather ancient "famous Unitarian" who got into a spot of trouble with Calvin for pointing out apparent flaws in Christian theology Jaume, but you seem to be rather ignorant of more recent U*U history, particularly in terms of the UUA's policy of "congregational polity". This is precisely why I suggested that you need to do some more research into U*U history. . . In fact, considering that you are something of a U*U historian, your apparent ignorance of such fundamental policies of U*Uism is somewhat surprising.
:and have been given lectures during the past three years. Have you?
I quite regularly give lectures about U*U history on The Emerson Avenger blog and as comments on other blogs etc. I can't imagine that you would want me delivering such lectures more publicly Jaume but perhaps one day I will. In fact I intend to do some more research into those allegations about alleged "Nazi Unit-Aryans" in the Deutsche Unitarier Religionsgemeinschaft aka DUR and Bund Deutscher Unitarier aka BDU and post the results of that free and responsible search for truth and meaning in the coming months. Maybe I will get around to throwing that book at U*Us before you do Jaume. . .
:By the way, if someone needs to learn about what congregational polity is, it's you. Remember your love affair with the Montreal church and Rev. Drennan?
Actually I have learned a fair bit about the seamy underbelly of "congregational polity" the hard way Jaume. Indeed my ongoing "love affair" with the Unitarian Church of Montreal and Rev. Ray Drennan actually shows that "congregational polity" allows rogue U*U ministers and rogue U*U congregations to "get away with murder", to say nothing of character assassination. But you should know that my "love affair" extends to the UUA, its Department of Ministry, the Ministerial Fellowship Committee and UUMA, and more recently, the UUA's Department of Congregational Services. All of these bodies hold responsibility for dealing appropriately with clergy misconduct and have abjectly failed and obstinately refused to responsibly redress by serious grievances about Rev. Ray Drennan's intolerant and abusive clergy misconduct. In fact the UUA has a terrible track record when it comes to providing genuine restorative justice to victims of clergy misconduct, including clergy sexual misconduct Jaume. Perhaps you should write a book about that. . .
:You have my full support in your learning process, Robin, as always.
Of course Jaume. No doubt, you consider your "memory holing" of my critical comments on your The Hanif blog to be part of that "learning process". Of course that "learning process" is a two-way street Jaume and I have done my fair share of teaching U*Us some lessons that they need to learn. It is most regrettable that U*Us are such slow learners though. . . I guess that U*Us will have to live and learn some more before our little "love affair" ends in divorce.
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